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[Kirara Munashi'i]

I am beginning to grow tired (as I'm sure some others here are as well) about the occasional "bashing" against the furry community.

First, I am admitting to the fact that I have done what I've stated above, but I think it was stupid and pointless. A waste of time and energy to look down on a community of people who [1] I not only sort of participated on, but [2] are innocent to some of the reasons they are "bashed" for here.

Second, I know of the history of the community, I was here since the early 1990's. I know of the constant negative media attention the community gets. But having experience (and researched) for myself and knowing a few people in the community currently, I can say beyond any doubt that many of these people in the community as well as the conventions are not as the media makes them out to be. I have been attending a convention known as Anthrocon for over 5 (this year including) years now and have never once seen anything mentioned in the media or by others (including sites such as PoE, SA, CYD, GHF, etc... [all of which I am also member of]). Compared to many other social situations I have ever been in as long as I can remember, aside from a familial event, I have had many great social experiences with people who call themselves furries.

Third, I believe some of the reasons they are "bashed" for on this site are also incorrect. Furries are seen like fluff here, but the furry sub-culture in definition is but a person who likes anthropomorphic animals. No where in that definition does it include spirituality, otherkin, nor therianthropy. Those furries who have chosen to announce they are the animal they took the persona of might or might not be fluff, but the point of furry in itself is to be fluff. The point of the community is to choose an animal persona you like and go with it. For whatever purpose, be it role play or for art. I do agree that most of the people who claim to be "their animal" are furries, but those who do fall into one of 4 categories: [1] Therianthropy (very, very rarely), [2] Otherkin (most of the time fluff, give or take), [3] Otakukin (fact: 99% of the time are fluff, the other 1% is confused or lost), or [4] fluff (the most obvious of all who cannot tell the difference between reality and fiction; believes they are their furry persona). So, again... Furries by themselves are not fluff, since they are not trying to be a part of the more spiritual communities. Even though multiple sub-cultures seem to overlap with furry, that is not enough to make an accurate generalised assumption. Fact and point: A furry can be a therian and a therian can be a furry, but therians are not furries nor are furries therians. Same goes for otherkin.

Fourth, Sex. Furries are "bashed" for sexuality. Yes, it is true most of the community includes people with many different tastes in sex. Some are just plain vanilla tastes, and others are full blown "sick" (in quotes because the definition of sick is subjective to a person, their background, their personality, their open-mindedness, their religion/beliefs, culture, etc... and can never truly be right 100% of the time). Again, although there is a noticeable concentration of these people in the furry community, it is not simply tied to this community alone. I am not defending the acts some commit, since I disagree with them, but it is not my place to care nor "bash" at them when they aren't harming anyone (this is not including the more dangerous acts, before you tell me I am condoning them).

Finally, the furry sub-culture is something you, yourself makes the decision to associate yourself with and take on the label. Many choose to not take the label because of the negative baggage and attention that comes with it, and that is fine. No one can tell you, you are a furry unless you claim you are. That is simply how it works. Furries are a proud group of people, albeit chaotic, and they still have a social order somehow that works. If you dislike furries, that is fine, no one is going to makes you like them, but the cultures, sub-cultures, backgrounds, race, sexual orientations, fetishes, spirituality (by the way, this does not mean you still aren't expected to at least explain why you have such beliefs if you are making public claims), religion, and politics of others are neither none of our business nor are we in the right to "bash" them simply because we are intolerant.

From this moment forward, I would like to see this site show a bit more tolerance for other groups, because the "bashing" not only doesn't accomplish anything (but making the person doing it look like an asshole), it gives everyone here a bad name for either not doing anything about it or egging that person on. It will simply give this place more of a bad name and make it seem (and I use this term lightly) "elitist."

If you don't like something a person is into or a part of, take it to a personal discussion off this board or go join another site like Something Awful, 4Chan, Portal of Evil, Crush Yiff Destroy, etc... where it is allowed to be intolerant. It is your responsibility to act in a civil manner. And as the famous Smokey the Bear says: "Only you can prevent forest fires."

PS:
I don't believe being a furry automatically makes you fluff. Your knowledge, experiences, intentions, and actions are what determine that.
To me, the furry sub-culture has absolutely nothing to do with or has any influence over my spirituality, therianthropy/otherkin, sexuality, and other choices in life. Nor do I believe it does in anyone else either. Anyone influenced by being a furry needs to have themselves checked. Seriously. It is a fan-community, not a bloody cult.
I am one of those who has chosen not to take on this label even though I am semi-active in the community. If this makes you view myself different, remember that I don't care, so take your complaints over to /dev/null.
If you cannot accept people for their differences, the answer is simple: either leave or get over it.

[Kirara Munashi'i]

This post isn't directed to any one in specific, Tiocahn, so don't worry.

This is supposed to be more of an announcement and suggestion as a forum rule.

[Taoki]

Thank you for making this topic Kirara. It's very nicely wrote and very true, and a very important thing to be said here. My congratulations

It's known by now I'm a hardcore furry as well, but as Kirara said it doesn't mean I have to confuse it with what I truly am. The reason I'm actually a furry is exactly because I'm a kitsune spiritually, since I feel better being part of a group that's technically about what I am and represents what I am. I use my spiritual self as my only "fursona", but never the other way around (otherkin -> furry is good and very recommended, furry -> otherkin is fluff and being a poser). I even met a few otherkin friends as totally average furs, and learned they are kin after we got into talking about it.

I dearly hope the part of the kin community who sees us as bad will stop associating being a fur with being a poser, because being one does not mean you must lie about anything, and as in my example many kin choose to be furries because it represents what they are. Anyone from any group can lie and start fluff in a community like this one if they choose to... being furries, anime fans or anything else doesn't make anyone do it.

[Seeker]

Sort of furry myself. Although I don't do cons. Or art. Or have a 'sona. So yeah not really furry I suppose.

But they're alright. Alot of misguided ones, alot of 'em that are too young to really talk about this kind of thing, sure.

Sigh... I don't want to exclude anyone, but Kirara's right. Standards and integrity are what's gonna make this place respectable. While I'd like to be able to help these ones, I think it's outside our purpose. It shouldn't be disallowed to come here as a furry looking to learn about otherkin, but if they make them their claims should be judged the same way everyone else's are.

[Kirara Munashi'i]

I think I'm going to take the liberty to move this over to the rules board actually. I think this thread belongs there.

[Kitsunami]

I am in the furry culture, i attend meets and have a FA account.

I was not however in the furry fandom when i first began obessing with foxes, nor when getting very confused about myself. I ended up there and ended up created up a fursona to cope with transgenderism and to be a 'girl' online away from the real world crap.

[naberius]

Second, I know of the history of the community, I was here since the early 1990's. I know of the constant negative media attention the community gets. But having experience (and researched) for myself and knowing a few people in the community currently, I can say beyond any doubt that many of these people in the community as well as the conventions are not as the media makes them out to be. I have been attending a convention known as Anthrocon for over 5 (this year including) years now and have never once seen anything mentioned in the media or by others (including sites such as PoE, SA, CYD, GHF, etc... [all of which I am also member of]). Compared to many other social situations I have ever been in as long as I can remember, aside from a familial event, I have had many great social experiences with people who call themselves furries.

Third, I believe some of the reasons they are "bashed" for on this site are also incorrect. Furries are seen like fluff here, but the furry sub-culture in definition is but a person who likes anthropomorphic animals. No where in that definition does it include spirituality, otherkin, nor therianthropy. Those furries who have chosen to announce they are the animal they took the persona of might or might not be fluff, but the point of furry in itself is to be fluff. The point of the community is to choose an animal persona you like and go with it. For whatever purpose, be it role play or for art. I do agree that most of the people who claim to be "their animal" are furries, but those who do fall into one of 4 categories: [1] Therianthropy (very, very rarely), [2] Otherkin (most of the time fluff, give or take), [3] Otakukin (fact: 99% of the time are fluff, the other 1% is confused or lost), or [4] fluff (the most obvious of all who cannot tell the difference between reality and fiction; believes they are their furry persona). So, again... Furries by themselves are not fluff, since they are not trying to be a part of the more spiritual communities. Even though multiple sub-cultures seem to overlap with furry, that is not enough to make an accurate generalised assumption. Fact and point: A furry can be a therian and a therian can be a furry, but therians are not furries nor are furries therians. Same goes for otherkin.

Fourth, Sex. Furries are "bashed" for sexuality. Yes, it is true most of the community includes people with many different tastes in sex. Some are just plain vanilla tastes, and others are full blown "sick" (in quotes because the definition of sick is subjective to a person, their background, their personality, their open-mindedness, their religion/beliefs, culture, etc... and can never truly be right 100% of the time). Again, although there is a noticeable concentration of these people in the furry community, it is not simply tied to this community alone. I am not defending the acts some commit, since I disagree with them, but it is not my place to care nor "bash" at them when they aren't harming anyone (this is not including the more dangerous acts, before you tell me I am condoning them).

Finally, the furry sub-culture is something you, yourself makes the decision to associate yourself with and take on the label. Many choose to not take the label because of the negative baggage and attention that comes with it, and that is fine. No one can tell you, you are a furry unless you claim you are. That is simply how it works. Furries are a proud group of people, albeit chaotic, and they still have a social order somehow that works. If you dislike furries, that is fine, no one is going to makes you like them, but the cultures, sub-cultures, backgrounds, race, sexual orientations, fetishes, spirituality (by the way, this does not mean you still aren't expected to at least explain why you have such beliefs if you are making public claims), religion, and politics of others are neither none of our business nor are we in the right to "bash" them simply because we are intolerant.

From this moment forward, I would like to see this site show a bit more tolerance for other groups, because the "bashing" not only doesn't accomplish anything (but making the person doing it look like an asshole), it gives everyone here a bad name for either not doing anything about it or egging that person on. It will simply give this place more of a bad name and make it seem (and I use this term lightly) "elitist."

If you don't like something a person is into or a part of, take it to a personal discussion off this board or go join another site like Something Awful, 4Chan, Portal of Evil, Crush Yiff Destroy, etc... where it is allowed to be intolerant. It is your responsibility to act in a civil manner. And as the famous Smokey the Bear says: "Only you can prevent forest fires."

first: thats is a lie!!! smokey can get off his lazy ass and help out too, his damn forest!
second: well said....all of it/all of you! glad to see that we can understand, except, and are even furries. (not all of you of course) many times furries have bashed on furries glad to see not all of them do! (though i prefer hentai........dirty i know but......whatever

[Edited by Kirara. Reason: Fixed your broken quote.]

[TheDarkMoogle]

Hmm...Being a member of the furry fandom is what got me into Therianthropy. I am still active in the fandom, and own a porcupine fursuit.

Now, I've seen quite a few furry-bashings. Now, these furry bashings are not a fault of the one bashing the fur, nor the furry themself. It's both of their faults.

Now, don't criticize me yet.

Most furs, on non-furry forums or otherwise. Have to state taht they are a fur somehow. I've noticed this, and I've done it. Usually through making a topic about it, making a Thread devoted to letting people know about furries, or placing something similar to," I'm a fur and proud " in their signature or avatar. Then, the "bashers" make some remark about the furry, and furries in general. Not always bashin, just making a small remark.

Then the furry goes ballistic. The furry goes on and on about being a fur, and how furs are hated so much, and how the "basher" is close-minded and stupid. They then argue forever until it degrades into baby name-calling.

So, the reason that furries are bashed, is because most of the time, they draw attention to it. They let people know that they are furries. They draw attention to that fact. This is what draws the "Bashers." There are a select few "bashers" who believe that furry/therianthropy/otherkins are wrong, and immoral. These people are usually misinformed, or just trolling with no intent other than to get people angry.

So what most of the "bashers" hate, is not the fact that furs are there, nor the fact that they exist, but the attention that they draw to themselves.

[Taoki]

I mostly agree with that, apart from the fact that haters attack furries worst after they start seeking attention. Most of them attack furs because of what they are, before they get to say or do anything. Almost all people who trolled me did it by coming to me and suddenly throwing junk, I never got to say anything to them nor in a public room or forum where they were present before that.

I fully agree that many furs seek attention too however, and I think that's wrong and the worst mistake they do. I let people know I'm a furry in most places I go, but I mention it once, and don't constantly bring it everywhere. I probably get to talk about it once every few weeks or months in such places from random discussion, which doesn't seem to bother anyone which I'm glad about.

[Kirara Munashi'i]

One other thing I don't want this thread to turn into is a thread for bashing "bashers" or "haters."

The DarkMoogle, I completely agree with you. The only reason people even keep picking on them is because they (the Furries) keep behaving like the ideal prey. They make it fun to pick on because of the over exaggerated reactions the "bullies" get. What people need to start doing is to simply not care what others think simply because of a community they belong to.

Also, welcome to the board, but you may want to post an introduction so we may get to know you. Some may think you are a troll if you didn't.

Taoki, it is okay to be open about who you believe you are, but sometimes there is a time to stay quiet about it. Not every one cares nor wants to know you are (or anyone else is) a furry. Friendships can be destroyed before they even got the chance to flourish if the person had a thing against furries. Then again, if someone judges you on something as trivial as that, they don't deserve to be your friend in the first place. The reason you get trolled or attacked is because of your habit of flaunting who you are to everyone. The only way to fix that is either to keep it to yourself (unless you feel you can trust that person and you know they don't have a problem with furries) or learn to deal with the consequences. Freedom of speech comes at a price (like everything else in life).

[Kitai]

*standing ovation*

This is something that needed to be said. I am one of the infamous "Furries" myself, though I don't think I AM my fursona. (I'm not even going into what that would entail, other than how such a belief would make me a citizen of FLUFFFFFF CITY!!!)

I would love to see a more gentle view of the Furry community here, and I am grateful for the lengthy suggestion that people treat the Furries with more respect. Thank you especially for the emphasis on the fact that, just because ONE person does something "creepy" or "wrong" within a specific demographic, doesn't mean EVERY member of the demographic engages in said "creepy" or "wrong" activity. I myself like to draw Anthro Art and I feel the costuming is great fun, but I don't think that just because I don a fuzzy outfit that it's some manifestation of my trueform (which I don't even know what my coat pattern looks like for crying out loud!) I appreciate the fact that you were willing to point out that just because someone is a Furry doesn't mean they are all fluff (and that sentence will probably amuse me for the rest of the night, as it could easily be misconstrued... The fact that that amuses me means it's time for me to go to sleep.)

[Raserith]

*runs up and kisses you
WHOOOO! It's a non-fur who's actually FRIENDLY!
*does happy dance*
i thought these guys were extinct

so yeah, a little clarification
1: a furry, by definition of most of the fandom itself, is someone who considers themself as an animal online at least. (anthro or not, there are quite a few four-legged wolves out there)
2: there was actually a study, and 90% of furs are homosexual (personally, i think those numbers were twisted by lumping bisexuals in with gays[bi, in case anyone was wonderin'])
3: Even the fandom looks at those people who claim to actually be their animal (i believe you called them "fluff") and points and laughs. seriously? you say your a dragon, but others see you as a human. oh, and you smell like a human except to yourself because human sences suck. oh, and you don't bust through stuff because the universe reacts to you as a fucking human?!?
my dad once said "if it looks like shit, feels like shit, and smells like shit, it's probably shit."
now go flap those dragon wings and fly across the grand canyon :3
now, i consider myself a wolf, but i, like most of the fandom, don't actually believe myself to be a wolf, i just chose to be something diffrent, taking advantage of the anonymity of the internet to create a new, less boring version of myself.

oh.
i nearly forgot
*glomps kitai and facelicks

[Kirara Munashi'i]

1: a furry, by definition of most of the fandom itself, is someone who considers themself as an animal online at least. (anthro or not, there are quite a few four-legged wolves out there)

Actually, there are as many definitions for what "furry" is as there are people in the sub-culture. The real definition is as I stated: A fan of anthropomorphic animals. The furry fandom, keyword being in "fandom."

2: there was actually a study, and 90% of furs are homosexual (personally, i think those numbers were twisted by lumping bisexuals in with gays[bi, in case anyone was wonderin'])

I can't say I agree with you completely on that because I don't have the results of that study in front of me, but I believe it may be likely. And I also took that survey at Anthrocon.

my dad once said "if it looks like shit, feels like shit, and smells like shit, it's probably shit."

Your father is a very, very, very wise man. Kudos to him.

now, i consider myself a wolf, but i, like most of the fandom, don't actually believe myself to be a wolf, i just chose to be something diffrent, taking advantage of the anonymity of the internet to create a new, less boring version of myself.

And there is nothing wrong with that. Making online identities can be fun and interesting. Especially the creation process. But knowing the difference between reality and fiction is key (as you know for yourself).

Thanks for being one of the intelligent furs (not sarcasm, but sad I actually don't get to say that very often).

[Seeker]

DERP

Source on the study or it didn't happen. Unfortunately you and Kirara are right, alot don't understand the difference between fantasy and reality, but there's no need for characterization. Quite a few of us understand that it isn't like that, it doesn't make us special. Along with getting past the idea that one day this world will all boil down to some perfect version of what we expect where everything is great, we find that we've got something to stick to, a measure of ourselves that we can use to carve out a little bit of nicety in a nasty world. What more do you need?

[Kirara Munashi'i]

I am going to sticky this thread because of the useful data here:

Source on the study or it didn't happen.

Kathleen Gerbasi, Ph.D.'s profile (The Anthrocon researcher)
Proof that Kathy is a real anthropologist and psychologist (And an instructor) | More proof
Kathleen Gerbasi, Ph.D.'s blog (LJ seems down at the moment of posting this)
The "Furries From A to Z" blog (Specifically for research only)
Yahoo! discussion group (For the "Furries From A to Z" results)
Furries From A to Z (These results were published in "Society & Animals" volume 16 number 3, in 2008)
I also believe she specialises in studying human-animal interaction, behaviour, and bonds (Example here).

Furry Sociology Report (This one isn't the Anthrocon research)
State of the Fandom 2008 (Another research publication, not done at Anthrocon either)

If you need more proof, I have a thank you letter and a survey participant sticker on my 2008 Anthrocon badge I can scan or you can e-mail Dr. Gerbasi yourself at the e-mail listed on the second or third links above.

Sauce delivered (Google is your friend).

Edit:
Now that I have the research in front of me... No, homosexuality does not have the highest percentage in the fandom. Bisexuality does. And no, it wasn't stuffed into the same group.

No female furries reported being homosexual; 58.3% were heterosexual, and 41.7 % were bisexual. Of the male furries, 31.5% were homosexual, 28% heterosexual, and 40.5% bisexual.

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