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[Zephiris]

This is true, but for actual foxes. Fox spirits are not particularly actual foxes, so the issues with balance and biology do not apply to them. If you look at Kami spirits in Shinto mythology, you'll notice the myriad of spirits who have very strange and impossible forms (for the rest of this answer see my response to number two).

Yeah, but so kitsune have no biology, contrary to everything else?

From what I can remember, I think I remember reading somewhere that fox spirits have been known to "rub their tails together" in order to create what is called 'fox fire.' Maybe that's one of the uses for the tails?

Mm.

Can you please define what you mean by "astral perception" and why only you and Alynna have this ability?

Astral is not quite the same as incarnate, although the main difference is separation I suppose. My primary body is there. Most function there can easily be considered analogues to similar necessary functions of life here. Perception is being able to sense, whether vision, or otherwise. Rather simple. I don't know about Alynna, but I had a little help, and worked on it, along with other things. As I said once before, nice things didn't happen to me, which is largely why I'm even here in the first place. Simple sensing is something most anyone can do, it mostly just takes a basic amount of effort and knowing what to try, as I said before.

Thank you, though I'm actually surprised you do.

I usually do, though, I was just pointing out my own experiences, while most everything you're saying in response is again out of folklore. I'm familiar with the folklore, but really, what would you expect a superstitious person to write down any greater than 60 years ago? Something sensible? Logical? Internally consistent? Too many people amusingly consider Mercedes Lackey to be a reliable source on the matter as well.

The reason for people thinking foxes "evolve" into kitsuné is because in many research pages and books, it states "all foxes are kitsuné." The problem with this is, it is not specific. People generally have the misconception the aforementioned phrase means "all foxes are Japanese fox spirits from mythology." This is why in my research document I wrote a section on Ethymology, to teach people "kitsuné" is simply the word for "fox" in Japanese. The way we use it (the word "kitsuné"), however, refers to the Japanese fox spirit in mythology and not the actual fox. Hopefully this helps to clear up the misconception a bit to others, as well.

It means 'fox' now. Records point to there being a redefinition some hundreds of years after the original stories, and the etymology defined varies. What I can't find is what the word was to begin with. The original purportedly roughly defined as "always comes to sleep with me", but everything including " yellow dog's stench" was claimed at some point.

[Kira]

 
Well, I believe that all this multiple-tail business is probably highly metaphorical. Naturally, since it was passed down orally by generations of humans, the 'highly metaphorical' part was eventually lost. 'A fox is known by its tail'. So I would suppose that the metaphorical tail-count was some sort of indicator for a fox's powers, most likely intelligence, smartnesss, cunning, and wisdom combined to form a 'tail score'.
 
Coming from that, I beleive that everyone would start of with a tail-count of 1, and gain a higher tail-count at an individual rate. So a ninetail would still only have one physical tail, but be someone really intelligent, wise, cunning, and smart, regardless of age. Also, while I don't think I'll do any elaborate speculations on just how the tail-count was probably calculated, I'M fairly sure that you'd have to excell in all four areas to be called a ninetail.
 
So much for the tail business, now about what I think is the difference between foxes and foxes.
Frankly, I'M not convinced that there is that much of a difference at all. They may very well be the same due to reasons that are either too far-fetched or to obvious for us to grasp. For example: Maybe a fox has or wishes to manifest in a physical form from time to time. Maybe the form of foxes is restrained by the lack of iserial energy in this world. Maybe they had a society well before the humans', but it crumbled due to isearial energy being sealed away from this world?
 
But those examples are only mere speculations in the direction of the far-fetched spectrum.
 
Oh yeah, and one more thing about foxes in mythology and humanoid shape...
That one is clearly influenced by human arrogance. Foxes trying to become human because the human form is perfect. Whenever I read about something like that it makes me sick. I don't know about the rest of you, but the second I get the chance, I'm switching to a quadrupedal fox form.
 

[Kirara Munashi'i]

Yeah, but so kitsune have no biology, contrary to everything else?

Huh? Kitsuné, being fox spirits, have no actual physical bodies and therefore impossible for them to have any biological structure since they aren't oganic.

Astral is not quite the same as incarnate, although the main difference is separation I suppose. My primary body is there. Most function there can easily be considered analogues to similar necessary functions of life here. Perception is being able to sense, whether vision, or otherwise. Rather simple. I don't know about Alynna, but I had a little help, and worked on it, along with other things. As I said once before, nice things didn't happen to me, which is largely why I'm even here in the first place. Simple sensing is something most anyone can do, it mostly just takes a basic amount of effort and knowing what to try, as I said before.

You still didn't answer my question though...

I usually do, though, I was just pointing out my own experiences, while most everything you're saying in response is again out of folklore. I'm familiar with the folklore, but really, what would you expect a superstitious person to write down any greater than 60 years ago? Something sensible? Logical? Internally consistent? Too many people amusingly consider Mercedes Lackey to be a reliable source on the matter as well.

Kitsuné as a whole exists no where else but in folklore and legends as well, so I speak what I know from what I've gathered in research. Personal experiences don't quite fit in since anyone can just make up personal experiences. If I have any personal experiences that seem to comply with research, I may share those, but even those can be faked. I also only use personal experiences when I'm speaking about a personal opinion of mine rather than speaking in a debate. Not saying what you said is made up or anything. Just telling you the reason why I post the way I do.

It means 'fox' now. Records point to there being a redefinition some hundreds of years after the original stories, and the etymology defined varies. What I can't find is what the word was to begin with. The original purportedly roughly defined as "always comes to sleep with me", but everything including " yellow dog's stench" was claimed at some point.

I'm confused... I thought "fox" meant "fox" in English, "Kitsuné" (apparently this forum system doesn't support Hiragana text input) meant "fox" in Japanese, and "Kitsuné" (in English text) meant "Japanese fox spirit from Shinto mythology" when using it in English... Otherwise, why use a foreign word incorrectly in English when it already has an English variant? All that is going to accomplish is confusion amongst everyone.

And Kira, it would help if you quoted people. I have no idea who your post is referring to...

[Taoki]

Huh? Kitsuné, being fox spirits, have no actual physical bodies and therefore impossible for them to have any biological structure since they aren't oganic.

Spirits do have bodies / forms too I think. Astral bodies are likely different then a body in this life, but kitsune do have their own forms and can walk in them, touch each other, touch other objects and so on. I don't believe that every spirit is just a floating mist until they inhabit a physical body (get born in a world like this one) as far as I know.

Kitsuné as a whole exists no where else but in folklore and legends as well, so I speak what I know from what I've gathered in research. Personal experiences don't quite fit in since anyone can just make up personal experiences. If I have any personal experiences that seem to comply with research, I may share those, but even those can be faked. I also only use personal experiences when I'm speaking about a personal opinion of mine rather than speaking in a debate. Not saying what you said is made up or anything. Just telling you the reason why I post the way I do.

If a little kit like me may give a word of advice: Don't go by folklore and the legends written by humans, but go with personal experiences instead. Folklore and legends have been written since old times, and like the case of Christianity the truth has likely been manipulated and turned into a bunch of lies for various purposes. If enough people hated kitsune or got used to portraying them as evil (which I believe they have) then many human cultures will surely describe them as vial evil creatures and have wrote all kinds of lies so the world would see what they want them to see. I'm not saying everything wrote in folklore is a lie, but it's certainly not a reliable source either. Things also change in time even astrally, but folklore remains the same and becomes a downdated source over the years.

Everything I say and ever said regarding kitsune, the astral plane, etc. is only from what I feel, believe, or any kind of memory I might still remember deep inside from past lives. If you truly feel something and try to seek the truth for yourself, you will somehow get to it. As far as I know the most reliable source is listening to yourself and those you trust if they are certain they know something correctly, so my advice for everyone is to try and go for that first.

[Zephiris]

Huh? Kitsuné, being fox spirits, have no actual physical bodies and therefore impossible for them to have any biological structure since they aren't oganic.

"Spirits", things on the astral plane don't live here in particular, and? It doesn't make things all of that mystical. We're not talking about Pirates or Ninjas, after all. I suppose 'spiritual anatomy' is too advanced a topic for here.

You still didn't answer my question though...

I didn't? I must not know what kind of answer you're looking for, then, because I don't know how I'm supposed to answer why it looks like nobody around here was unlucky or worked hard. Laziness? Laziness might suffice for an answer as far as why others around here don't. There's nothing 'special' about it.

Kitsuné as a whole exists no where else but in folklore and legends as well, so I speak what I know from what I've gathered in research. Personal experiences don't quite fit in since anyone can just make up personal experiences. If I have any personal experiences that seem to comply with research, I may share those, but even those can be faked. I also only use personal experiences when I'm speaking about a personal opinion of mine rather than speaking in a debate. Not saying what you said is made up or anything. Just telling you the reason why I post the way I do.

Anyone can, but anyone can also make up folklore. How many 'round here have, at least at one point, taken "Foxtrot's Guide" as gospel, even though it's coked up drivel? Anyone can go look up legends themselves if they want to. Most anyone can simply go poking around astral and dig up things if they want too. Most don't seem very interested in the latter. If Mohammed won't go to the mountain, sometimes the mountain goes to Mohammed, and hopefully the mountain doesn't turn out to be a volcano.
Also, are you saying kitsune don't exist, for they're only legends?
Also, how accurate did legends and myths about vampires turn out to be?
Elves?
Angels?
Has any 'general mythos' ever turned out to be more than bizarre human fluff-spin?

If a little kit like me may give a word of advice: Don't go by folklore and the legends written by humans, but go with personal experiences instead. Folklore and legends have been written since old times, and like the case of Christianity the truth has likely been manipulated and turned into a bunch of lies for various purposes. If enough people hated kitsune or got used to portraying them as evil (which I believe they have) then many human cultures will surely describe them as vial evil creatures and have wrote all kinds of lies so the world would see what they want them to see. I'm not saying everything wrote in folklore is a lie, but it's certainly not a reliable source either. Things also change in time even astrally, but folklore remains the same and becomes a downdated source over the years.

Everything I say and ever said regarding kitsune, the astral plane, etc. is only from what I feel, believe, or any kind of memory I might still remember deep inside from past lives. If you truly feel something and try to seek the truth for yourself, you will somehow get to it. As far as I know the most reliable source is listening to yourself and those you trust if they are certain they know something correctly, so my advice for everyone is to try and go for that first.

As you've said numerous times, you have no experience. Honestly, just about everything with you is some random thing you've decided must be the case, or were told by someone else. Memories aren't 'useful' for much unless corroborated in the end, and as Kitsunami has pointed out more than once, it's terribly easy for someone to force a memory. Another concept I've known among 'fake dragons' at least, is the like/desire toward something, reaffirming/proving everything about it, in one of those 'circle jerks' Alynna talked about a few times.

Legends, memories, just about all of it, can be a signpost. "A grain of truth, but a load of bullshit" is basically how the world, or rather its inhabitants, operate. For every thing out there, there might be a grain of truth to it, but chances are, it's a giant load of horse shit for the most part. If you accept all of it, you get rather dirty. Time to invest in an industrial BS sifter. If you're smart, you might be able to figure your way based on breadcrumbs. If not, it's easy enough to take everything as 'the gospel', the ultimate truth, the next religion, or lead yourself down into fantasy-fluff land.

Everyone has an agenda, although most also have an agenda about bending things to suit their view, make themselves look better. Mine, loosely, was the desire to help someone (in particular), but, I can't. Oh well. Not one person is going to listen to sense nor sensibility, I might as well waste some of my own time, then. If I need to break things down more and explain it in even more basic chunks, just let me know how far I need to go and I'll try. ;p

[Kira]

 
No, Zeph, Taoki is right.
Your own experiences are more important and significant then anything that was written down by humans in the past.
 
Naturally one must be cautious, but I would call it outright wrong to just dismiss a notion because it's frome someone's personal experience, and not becked up by any proof. As you mentioned with so many nice words, most of which involving excrements, that path is treacherous, but that's the point of this place. To discuss your findings with others, even if they are only from your own experience. And many times it turns out that you are not the only one who has made that experience.
 
And to the thing about having no experience...
Modesty seems to be a good which alters its meaning the more you go from east to west.

[Zephiris]

No, Zeph, Taoki is right.
Your own experiences are more important and significant then anything that was written down by humans in the past.

I never said they weren't. Congrats! Someone else said that.

Naturally one must be cautious, but I would call it outright wrong to just dismiss a notion because it's frome someone's personal experience, and not becked up by any proof. As you mentioned with so many nice words, most of which involving excrements, that path is treacherous, but that's the point of this place. To discuss your findings with others, even if they are only from your own experience. And many times it turns out that you are not the only one who has made that experience.

I think you missed the point. -Any- of that can be misleading. Charging straight in with only belief usually means that's where you'll always stay. Though if anyone's shared any part of my experience, I'll have to give them a beer, even though I have no beer.

And to the thing about having no experience...
Modesty seems to be a good which alters its meaning the more you go from east to west.

Modesty has what to do with Taoki having such a well-known penchant toward fantasy and drama? Experience would apparently be the operative word in all of that. No experience, means that, yeah, you have to say "I believe in" a lot if you're absolutely unwilling to get any experience. Taoki is quite clear that she wants to do nothing ever, be responsible for herself never. Maybe you're right, though. Nothing Taoki could say is worth bothering to respond to. Anyone with a clear enough head doesn't need the response, they're already working it out for themselves.

[Kirara Munashi'i]

Spirits do have bodies / forms too I think. Astral bodies are likely different then a body in this life, but kitsune do have their own forms and can walk in them, touch each other, touch other objects and so on. I don't believe that every spirit is just a floating mist until they inhabit a physical body (get born in a world like this one) as far as I know.

Maybe in their realm, but not this one. I'm speaking about our realm.

If a little kit like me may give a word of advice: Don't go by folklore and the legends written by humans, but go with personal experiences instead. Folklore and legends have been written since old times, and like the case of Christianity the truth has likely been manipulated and turned into a bunch of lies for various purposes. If enough people hated kitsune or got used to portraying them as evil (which I believe they have) then many human cultures will surely describe them as vial evil creatures and have wrote all kinds of lies so the world would see what they want them to see. I'm not saying everything wrote in folklore is a lie, but it's certainly not a reliable source either. Things also change in time even astrally, but folklore remains the same and becomes a downdated source over the years.

When dealing with the subject of fox spirits, I would rather go the academic route and seek out written and recorded material that is at least somewhat reliable (as opposed to not reliable at all). This way I would at least have other works to back up what I say and not just my word. You are right though. Depending on what it is you're sharing, personal experiences can be sufficient and/or appropriate. My problem is, I just prefer to hold my tongue when itcomes to sharing my own personal experiences. I would rather observe what others say and do before drawing my own conclusions in order to make comparisons in my notes/research and personal experiences to see what could be plausable and what is total and utter crap.

"Spirits", things on the astral plane don't live here in particular, and? It doesn't make things all of that mystical. We're not talking about Pirates or Ninjas, after all. I suppose 'spiritual anatomy' is too advanced a topic for here.

Yeah, I do think this is for another topic. Though, see my reply to Taoki 2 quotes above this one.

I didn't? I must not know what kind of answer you're looking for, then, because I don't know how I'm supposed to answer why it looks like nobody around here was unlucky or worked hard. Laziness? Laziness might suffice for an answer as far as why others around here don't. There's nothing 'special' about it.

Sorr, I was just under the impression you were basically saying you and Alynna have this obscure power and no one else has it because of the way you worded it. That's why I asked you to clarify in more detail before jumping to conclusions. Thanks, I think.

Anyone can, but anyone can also make up folklore. How many 'round here have, at least at one point, taken "Foxtrot's Guide" as gospel, even though it's coked up drivel? Anyone can go look up legends themselves if they want to. Most anyone can simply go poking around astral and dig up things if they want too. Most don't seem very interested in the latter. If Mohammed won't go to the mountain, sometimes the mountain goes to Mohammed, and hopefully the mountain doesn't turn out to be a volcano.
Also, are you saying kitsune don't exist, for they're only legends?
Also, how accurate did legends and myths about vampires turn out to be?
Elves?
Angels?
Has any 'general mythos' ever turned out to be more than bizarre human fluff-spin?

[snip]

Legends, memories, just about all of it, can be a signpost. "A grain of truth, but a load of bullshit" is basically how the world, or rather its inhabitants, operate. For every thing out there, there might be a grain of truth to it, but chances are, it's a giant load of horse shit for the most part. If you accept all of it, you get rather dirty. Time to invest in an industrial BS sifter. If you're smart, you might be able to figure your way based on breadcrumbs. If not, it's easy enough to take everything as 'the gospel', the ultimate truth, the next religion, or lead yourself down into fantasy-fluff land.

Everyone has an agenda, although most also have an agenda about bending things to suit their view, make themselves look better. Mine, loosely, was the desire to help someone (in particular), but, I can't. Oh well. Not one person is going to listen to sense nor sensibility, I might as well waste some of my own time, then. If I need to break things down more and explain it in even more basic chunks, just let me know how far I need to go and I'll try. ;p

This is true, but in that case wouldn't everything basically be unreliable? Since how we all are humans here it is our word we are asking people to take. A compromise in sources would be good I think, since how this would just be a stalemate. After thinking about it, I can see how personal experiences and  folklore can be good, so long as both are taken with a grain of salt and knowing that folklore shouldn't always be taken literal (as some things may carry hidden messages between the lines).

As you've said numerous times, you have no experience. Honestly, just about everything with you is some random thing you've decided must be the case, or were told by someone else. Memories aren't 'useful' for much unless corroborated in the end, and as Kitsunami has pointed out more than once, it's terribly easy for someone to force a memory. Another concept I've known among 'fake dragons' at least, is the like/desire toward something, reaffirming/proving everything about it, in one of those 'circle jerks' Alynna talked about a few times.

I'm going to have to agree with Zephiris on this one. Your behaviour time and time again has only proven this to be true (or at least very apparent), Taoki.

No, Zeph, Taoki is right.
Your own experiences are more important and significant then anything that was written down by humans in the past.

I never said they weren't. Congrats! Someone else said that.

Yeah, I'm the one who said it. But I retracted that statement and corrected myself above.

Naturally one must be cautious, but I would call it outright wrong to just dismiss a notion because it's frome someone's personal experience, and not becked up by any proof. As you mentioned with so many nice words, most of which involving excrements, that path is treacherous, but that's the point of this place. To discuss your findings with others, even if they are only from your own experience. And many times it turns out that you are not the only one who has made that experience.

Everything should be done in moderation... Relying solely on personal beliefs is dangerous and self-destructive.

And to the thing about having no experience...
Modesty seems to be a good which alters its meaning the more you go from east to west.

Modesty has what to do with Taoki having such a well-known penchant toward fantasy and drama? Experience would apparently be the operative word in all of that. No experience, means that, yeah, you have to say "I believe in" a lot if you're absolutely unwilling to get any experience. Taoki is quite clear that she wants to do nothing ever, be responsible for herself never. Maybe you're right, though. Nothing Taoki could say is worth bothering to respond to. Anyone with a clear enough head doesn't need the response, they're already working it out for themselves.

What she said.

[The Blind Seer]

To everyone,
My apologies for not responding sooner.  Life has been hectic lately, and more than usual the past day or two.  I don't always have the time to do all of the things I'd like to do.  I'm sorry for the huge wall of text, too, I have a lot of responses to catch up with.

Zephiris,
1 - I forgot why I included this in the theory; I think I was going to expand on it in the conclusion part, but I forgot to.  Nontheless, I've asked, and there is a huge debate about how the kitsune get their tails in the first place; so, I'm going to take this part out of the theory (both as irrelevant and potentially incorrect).  As for what you said, I agree with Kirara.  Spirits themselves have no need for balance, and their form is not dicated by physical concerns.  Therefore, the number of tails they would have does not matter.  The second part of the paragraph is a little bit confusing - are you asking why it's not believable that most fox spirits don't have nine tails?  Or, are you pointing out the fact that most of the population should have nine tails as further evidence against the 100-year theory?  Either way, I have a question: how similar is Shintoism to Buddhism?  If it's very similar, I might have an answer. Of course, I could be/might be incorrect but... here goes.  According to Kirara, when a Kitsune gets nine tails, he/she achieves 'enlightenment.' Though I haven't seen this anywhere else, I haven't looked that deeply as of yet.  Anyway, when that happens (this is my presumption, and this exists at least in Buddhism), they have a choice to join with the Divinity (I think this is called Nirvana in Buddhism).  I'm not positive, but I believe this would make them effectively cease to exist in the spiritual plane... therefore reducing the percentage of mature Kitsune. I'm going to google the answer to the enlightenment question as soon as I'm done typing up all of my responses (as long as it's not too late), by the way, so you may not have to answer my question.

2 - It's true that foxes do only vaguely resemble Kitsune, and I admit that I phrased this incorrectly.  I should have said "Some Kitsune," not "All Kitsune."  There's a version of the Ososuke and Akomachi legend/myth that entails two foxes seeking sanctuary with Inari, though I'm not sure if they were Kitsune before she granted them sanctuary in return for serving her, or if they became kitsune afterwards.  If it is true that they were Kitsune before going to Inari, then the only other evidence I have to back up my reasoning is a fictional story by Kij Johnson called "Fox Woman" about a normal fox who became a kitsune, which was based on actual Japanese mythology (The Tale of Yoshifuji, copied offline and uploaded here: http://salemfuchs.mhcstudios.com/TEMP/docs/The%20Tale%20of%20Yoshifuji.txt).   Also, foxes are described as cunning and mischevious - two traits that I've seen in the description of Kitsune, as well. [Resource: http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/oinari.shtml, though this page - http://www.obakemono.com/obake/kitsune/ - is the one I originally saw it on.] I would say that is a sign of 'fox behavior.'  In addition, I'm unsure where the 'there' is that you're referring to.

3 - This paragraph was also confusing, but I think the general idea behind it was that you were saying you neither agreed nor disagreed with reincarnation.

4.2 - I'm unsure what you mean by the term 'alive.'  Also, from what I remember of Buddhism (which is one of the things I base my thoughts about Kitsune on, since that was one of the dominant religions, aside from Shintoism, which I admit that I don't know that much about), humans can and do reincarnate; of course, sometimes they would incarnate as a 'lesser' creature such as a fox, so this in itself presents a different problem with my theory.

4.3 - It is rather hard to obtain the level of intelligence present in a 'higher' species when one's physical brain simply isn't built for that sort of stuff, and when your lifestyle doesn't allow for the free time in which to think about matters much deeper than simple survival, yes. Though, I have to wonder what domesticated animals spend their free time doing/thinking, since they don't have to worry about that... *laughs*

And one of the definitions of 'naive' is lacking information/instruction; my personal definition includes the word 'gullible.'  There are some on the board who have demonstrated gullibility, hence my use of the word 'naive.'  Of course, this isn't the closest word to what I mean, but it's similar enough.

*nods*  Aye, I'm not disagreeing with you about how messed up humanity is.

Also, I'm beginning to think that I should have thought about the theory for more than about two minutes before posting it.  Such is what I get for making a new membership at two a.m. in the moring... *laughs*  Thank you for pointing out these factors, and thank you even more for taking the time to respond.  I enjoy a good challenge, and this is shaping up to be one of those challenges.  

As for why everyone says kitsune only 'evolve' from foxes, and nothing else, I don't know, exactly.  It probably has something to do with the mythologies behind foxes 'becoming' kitsune, whilest there's nothing on any other things turning into kitsune.  That and, as Kirara said, kami (which Kitsune are a part of) want to become human, not the other way around.  Why this is, I have no idea, except that this is part of a religion, and all religions place humanity at the top of the totem pole.

GoldKitsu,
You present a very valid hole in my argument... I've yet to come up with an answer for you, but I'll keep trying.  Thank you (and no, that isn't sarcastic, lol).  I'm not sure what you meant by the axioms comment, however; I suppose that's because I associate the term 'basic assumptions' with the term 'axiom.'  Also, I merely stated them so that all could see my reasoning behind my conclusion - so in that sense, yes, they were axioms.

Tiocahn,
I believe it would apply in any culture that has a religion that believes in reincarnation.  Although, there have been quite a few problems brought up already that I'm going to have to find a solution for, so it's not perfect - keep in mind that this is just a theory, nothing else.

Kira,
Huh. That's actually an interesting spin on the tail thing that I hadn't thought of before.

---

I'm sure there are some things I missed, but I'm not sure where.  Also, I wrote the majority of this at three a.m. yesterday morning, so there might be some spelling/grammatical errors.

[Taoki]

Ok... regarding my posts I'm going to say something and I shall say it once. I don't know why certain people keep treating anything I say as wrong, stupid, fantasist, etc. and choose to act so aggressively to many things I write as of recent, so this is what I'm going to say:

I thought this forum is a place where we could discuss our beliefs openly and everyone can say what they believe, share experiences, learn and get along together. However that isn't possible as it should be it seems. As I stated previously everything I say is from my own experiences and beliefs, or sometimes it might be something I heard from someone else I trust. I have never consciously lied about anything on this forum and don't intend to, and have never posted anything in a way meant to upset anyone (except in some dramas where yes I was truly upset at some point). So if certain people want to qualify everything I say as the words of a mad man it's totally their business from now on.

From what I was told my posts are hated because I'm being more tolerant to believing some things then other people are. Yes, I believe things much more easily then others do, like for instance that stuff such as magic and "braking reality" can be possible even if extremely difficult. Also I don't believe that "everyone is a kitsune", I simply don't jump and call someone a liar and a poser once they raise the smallest suspicion like others do. If you choose to limit your beliefs to a certain point or think someone is a liar whenever they raise any suspicion that is totally your right and no one forces you to believe something you don't want to. However not everyone must act or limit their believing in the same way, and I will certainly not accuse someone or disbelieve something unless I believe for myself that I should.

I have done my best to write my beliefs in a clear and correct way and do not feel guilty any more. I generally tried to write everything in such a way to not even upset those members who get started from the smallest thing, but I think its time I stop giving a damn as I feel I tried what I could and what I should have. So from this moment on I will continue saying what I feel and believe in a honest and straight way for everyone to see as they like, without trying to manage anyone any further. If someone doesn't like it its their problem from this point on and they can feel free to complain or keep it to theirself. I am not starting up any drama now, I'm simply saying this in a very direct and straight way to clear up this situation so I won't be asked about this in the future. Thank you.

[Kitsunami]

There are tales where a human has become a kitsune

Who can say why the foxes dance?
Why they spin, caper and prance?

[GoldKitsu]

There are tales where a human has become a kitsune

Who can say why the foxes dance?
Why they spin, caper and prance?

Actually I've seen an actual mythology reference to that, i've seen such fiction but not actual folklore/mythology.

[Kira]

And to the thing about having no experience...
Modesty seems to be a good which alters its meaning the more you go from east to west.

Modesty has what to do with Taoki having such a well-known penchant toward fantasy and drama? Experience would apparently be the operative word in all of that. No experience, means that, yeah, you have to say "I believe in" a lot if you're absolutely unwilling to get any experience. Taoki is quite clear that she wants to do nothing ever, be responsible for herself never. Maybe you're right, though. Nothing Taoki could say is worth bothering to respond to. Anyone with a clear enough head doesn't need the response, they're already working it out for themselves.

What she said.

So the two of you would choose to take the human path and discriminate one who walks his own path regardless of what others say or what the dominant opinion is? You would brand a single person eternally with a clicheé?
 
And one more thing...

Maybe you're right, though. Nothing Taoki could say is worth bothering to respond to.

I do not know where you read an intention like that into. Rather, it seems you're intenionally laying false words into my mouth with the goal of discredition by making it appear like I were badmouthing my own brother. Cease it at once!

[Zephiris]

So the two of you would choose to take the human path and discriminate one who walks his own path regardless of what others say or what the dominant opinion is? You would brand a single person eternally with a clicheé?
 
And one more thing...

Maybe you're right, though. Nothing Taoki could say is worth bothering to respond to.

I do not know where you read an intention like that into. Rather, it seems you're intenionally laying false words into my mouth with the goal of discredition by making it appear like I were badmouthing my own brother. Cease it at once!

Taoki is as Taoki does. The dominant opinion, particularly among a very small subset of people, does not automatically equal truth, sanity, or logic. Mob mentality has been used to lynch and burn how many people over the years? Including the recent random and senseless persecution of muslims and virtually anyone of apparent middle-eastern (including a few unfortunate Pakistanis) descent. (Though I do recall a large group of furries screaming 'nuke them all, NUKE THEM ALL!' in 2001 as well, with not one person willing to say it was a bad/absurd/moronic notion.)

Speaking of cliches, why does everyone brand everything allegedly-bad as somehow being human? There are a variety of humans better than any of us. Kitsune, especially the Inari folks, have never been innocent enough to cast the first stone. Read, for once: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_True_Scotsman
As far as I can tell, the only reason to ascribe 'everything bad' (particularly unfounded) to humanity, is simply insecurity about yourself, wanting to 'distance yourself' at any cost from humans, which generally wouldn't be necessary unless you are, or fear you are.
Humans have done a lot of bad things, so has absolutely everything else, and most of it continues undeterred to this day. Humanity has absolutely nothing on the number of individuals, species, races, that some part of the kitsune species has decided to genocide mercilessly, same for dragons, and most everything else.

The last part is particularly funny since it seems to be based on your completely random misunderstanding of words. ._. Although, also amused that Taoki's apparent gender apparently keeps switching every day. Good to know.

I'm starting to feel rather disgusted with everyone. Everyone laments how this is a 'place for discussion', but always uses the hypocritical cliches and calls themselves enlightened and superior compared to the 'dirty humans'. If all of this is, is discussing a few myths with tightly closed eyes, unwilling to even discuss the merits and rational or logic of a belief, and proclaiming everyone "special" compared to humanity, then might as well move the forum to fchan or something equally frivolous.

[The Blind Seer]

GoldKitsu,
I believe I may have come up with an explanation for the "past lives having a bearing on the present one" issue.  The knowledge we gain may be used in a future life unconsciously, sort of like when we learn to swim, eat, have sex, and so on and so forth.  The first time one does any of these things, we are awkward and clumsy at it, but with time, we learn how to do them better, more efficiently, etcetera, to the point where when we perform these actions, it is as much instinctual as anything else.

The idea behind this is that there's a presence behind our physical bodies that has not been developed in this life or determined by our bodily chemistry (the 'soul'), and while that presence may not manifest itself consciously, it is nontheless directing our thoughts and/or actions to some degree.

Kitsunami,
Where?

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