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[StormFox]

Kind of off-topic, but Makoto reminds me of Makoto from Kanon 

[matoa]

'Treat others as they should be treated'.

Your right, that does sound dark, but only to those who may deserve it. It actually makes a lot more sense then 'Do unto others what you would have them do unto you' simply because it deals with each person as individuals not simply as reflections of yourself.

I had never heard of Makoto, and I find it a very interesting concept.

Thank you!

 

[Kira]

 
I think "Treat others as they should be treated" sounds exactly right.
I mean, that's the idea of karma, nya?
Everyone gets what is coming to him.
If someone makes himself your enemy, you treat him as such.
If that one wants to be your lover, treat him as a lover should be treated.
 

[Okori Tenko]

 Ah. You're getting the idea. Yes. This is also a moto the Army uses. However... Don't disuade yourself from thinking this is the full knowledge of it. It's one peice of the puzzle.

 Treating others as they should be treate also implies that you 'Understand' why a person does what they do. THEN you can treat them as they should be treated. If that means in the end, that they are your enemy, then they will be your enemy, but make sure that they are your enemy simply because they want to be, not because of a hatefull reason.

 This is the 'Law of the Challenger', for lack of naming a better principal. The idea of this is in an emnity not because of sour emotion, but due to pure challenge. Those who fight know this best.

 Two samurai fought, and one was defeated. The defeated spat on the victor out of malice. However, the victor simply sheathed his sword, turned around and walked off. The victor's attendant questioned him about his actions. "Master, why don't you finish him off? He disrespected you by spitting on you. Doesn't that mean he deserves death?"

 "Indeed it does, attendant. However, it's not deserved today. Our fight was to see who is the better. This was just proven. I was not granted by my lord to kill him. One day, we will meet in battle. Then he will learn that my blade does far more damage than his mouth. Today, he is my challenge. I've defeated that challenge. Tomorow, he will be my enemy, because my lord has deemed it so. When that day comes, he will have what's left of his life taken from him, because he has left his honor on this feild this day and attempted to take mine. Should I kill him now, I would not have any honor, as I would be serving no purpose in serving my lord, or anyone else, save my own pride. As a man of honor, I'd rather'd be caught dead in my grave, than be without my honor, because in the end, I show my fidelity to my lord over my personal ego. I understand why he spat on me. In doing so, he disgraces himself and his lord. One day, he will be treated as he should be. This is also a part of knowimg Makoto. It is knowing 'when' to show it."

 In the end, this was just a show of what a person should think about before they make a move. Do you serve yourself? Or your ego? Makoto is neutral. It can be dark, or it can be light. It's the intent of the user that makes it light or dark. 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' is the lightest way of being nice. Makoto is about personal and sincere sincerity to yourself, and others.

 Remember this as you think about what another does to you, especially if what's been done hurts you. Understand why a person does such a thing, and you'll come to find that your enemy isn't just someone who hates you, but is hurting for a reason. Those whom chose to be your enemy to challenge you, are the ones who are true enemeies, but even when that kind of enemy is an enemy, they are also eternally, your friend.

[Kira]

 
Well, the purest and inevitable kind of enemy is still the one who stands in your way because his ideals and yours are irreconcilable. The Tales of... games are pretty good examples of it. Both the protagonists and the antagonists want to save the world, but they disagree on how to do it.
Tales of the Abyss

[Feathertail]

Well, the purest and inevitable kind of enemy is still the one who stands in your way because his ideals and yours are irreconcilable. The Tales of... games are pretty good examples of it. Both the protagonists and the antagonists want to save the world, but they disagree on how to do it.
Tales of the Abyss

Like the evangelical Christian I was arguing with on Gaia's religion board? We were kinda trying to persuade people in two different directions, but we respected each other because we each understood and represented the other's viewpoint fairly.

Unfortunately, when you're trying to put yourself on the side of peace, love, and tolerance, you end up running into a lot of people on the side of war, hate, and ignorance. And sometimes they're genuine nice people, who were born into the wrong belief system and can't help but fight to defend it. But usually they're just jerks.

[Fujo Jigen]

who one follows doesn't really matter what matters is that they believe in there knowledge of the truth.  Each person has to find there own way to enlightenment.  The search for leaning every thing we can is at the core of all even if they don't realize it.  Some believe others hold the answer, some themselves, and some a god or goddess what ever you turn to for truth matters not as long as you seek it.  and never give up seeking it. So Does it really matter for ones loyalty in this life?

Ill be the 'bad guy' and argue with this a bit. although some points I do agree with, its just the way she wrote them is 'not finished', when I read it its to....blocky... like its written by someone that knows alot but at the same time doesn't. I'm not trying to be offensive its just the way I read it. its the type of topic (as we've witnessed already) that makes people just jump on the band wagon and go, even though all the information doesn't seem to be there.

So here's where I'll start.

It doesn't matter who one follows really because in the end you'll go to what you believe in, though after some time in the 'afterlife' you'll be 'reborn' or 'reincarnated' again. and It is true each person has to find their own way of enlightenment, but what do you do after you gain that enlightenment? you start over with a new beginning. The search for learning everything isn't everything, really its more of how you live your life, what makes you happy, cause I can tell you now, some people can live happy lives without learning anything and everything. While others seek the truth some do not, seeking the truth is not what life is about, lies are everywhere disguising themselves as truth, so honestly lies and truth are just a part of life not what makes it. Experiencing life and going thru the hard times and the good is what life is all about.

as for spiritual aspect of this topic its all about what makes your soul sing and feel at home cause in the end no matter where we travel and search no matter how much distance and time has passed no matter how many lives we've lived isn't our soul rooms our one true home? the place where we always feel calm, and happy, the one place you can sit in for hours or days on end and be content, the one place where deep down you  never want to leave?

and those are just the basics of things, how you want to live your life (physical or spiritual), what you want in it, and what you want to experience is your decision, though I cant guarantee it wont backfire on you that's just how things are.

But I will say this one last thing which I agree on your loyalty, in the end, doesn't matter, cause if you go strait down to the basics, what makes all that possible, the want for loyalty and what not, is all about you, it sounds selfish and mean, but that's what it is, Us being selfish.

So take it as you want, comment as you want Im not trying to say its absolute but out of all the lives I've lived and the time imbetween those lives, thats how its been.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnndddddddddddddddddd now I feel old, ancient and decomposing....  

cant wait to read your reply's!

[Fujo Jigen]

I think "Treat others as they should be treated" sounds exactly right.
I mean, that's the idea of karma, nya?
Everyone gets what is coming to him.
If someone makes himself your enemy, you treat him as such.
If that one wants to be your lover, treat him as a lover should be treated.
 

I follow more along the lines of "I treat people the way I wanna be treated and if they don't return the favor I treat them the way their treating me"

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