I would imagine

Quote from: Taoki on March 09, 2009, 09:07:30 AM

I heard many bad things about the astral which worry me, but I think it's certainly much better there then in this life. At least there we have our kin, and a few forms of magic and some wonderful surreal places to go to Hyper

Also I don't think you can be killed too easily on the astral either, as if killing a spirit is possible it's certainly not a thing anyone can easily do like picking up a gun up and shooting someone works on this world... though I remember there are attacks and forms of torture commonly taking place there Sad

I wonder what excuse a place like the astral has to contain as much evil as I heard and remember there is there... some creatures are very ungrateful fox_awake

Those who attack and cause terror on the astral should live a bunch of lives here, then they'll probably return there a bit more grateful with their head lowered into the ground and say "I'm sorry".

It generally requires more work if you want to be absolutely certain, but 'a gun' is reasonably effective. *shrug* Yeah, if you want to be absolutely certain about killing a person here, for instance, you could remove the heart, crush the brain. But, even a shoulder bullet wound will cause shock and eventually bleed out. Similarly on astral, a similar wound can cause shock, bleeding out. It can cause serious damage, but it takes quite a bit more work to 'be sure'. Although, usually the weaker/more average and 'mundane' someone is, the less internal or external defenses there are in place either. If you're powerful, you have to train, work at it, very hard, for a very very long time. Even if you're put through gruelling training for 15000 years straight, the only difference that might make in various situations, if you actually succeeded, is that you don't die instantly, and instead it might take a few minutes. It's not something that falls into your lap, or is given to you, and traits you get when born are only an influence. Nobody is born strong enough to defend themselves.

And...the latter statement is just incredibly naive. If you torture someone, it makes them angrier and more brutal, and I can say that out of experience just as well, and humans are very prone to doing terrible things. If someone particularly nasty were here, and some do come here willingly, it's most often to get new ideas on how to make people suffer.

Quote from: Taoki on March 09, 2009, 09:41:02 AM

I don't want to claim I know everything about the astral, but I remember from my memories as well as heard from kin friends that a lot of horrible things go on there, and I just find that very disappointing because I believe the astral is a place that should be appreciated and used by everyone to try and make a happy life for their self and others.

I don't think one even has to hunt and kill other creatures to feed there, as if I remember correctly we can live with energy astrally which we can even offer to friends to a point if we wish to help feed them, so it probably doesn't imply kill-to-live rules. So if what I feel and remember is true, I believe that causing such harm there and torturing or attacking others constantly has absolutely no excuse Busy

I thought you said before you know nothing about it?

Okay, say you somehow managed to get every sentient species to somehow 'be nice' (Never Going To Happen), there are lots of non-sentient things which are just as likely to keep doing whatever they've been doing for the last forever-and-a-half.

But, even so, people have their ambitions. A lot of people want to be gods by force, declare that it justifies anything.

Even the so-called wonderful myobu act akin to the ultimate witch-hunt authority and are happy enough to persecute, murder, and torture, because anyone who doesn't follow Inari is not worthy of rights or life. They're kinda like Fundamentalist Evangelicals.

Nevermind, if you want to be free, chances are, you're going to have to defend yourself, violently, a lot.

You're thinking about the astral plane in the same manner that new-age humans think of it. It's not a "human consciousness space", it's not some "special spiritual sanctuary". It's...just like here, only bloodier, and dirtier. Of course, you get various settlements, civilizations, which are capable of defending themselves such that being in a particular place is reasonably safe, particularly if they believe in freedom that much.

Quote from: GoldKitsu on March 09, 2009, 09:12:53 AM

ok, make an assumption about the astral that you can choose where you will be, can you fault some places for being extremely nasty?

You only get such a choice if you're a free person. If you're a slave, or otherwise subjegated, it tends to be the case that someone else makes the decisions, even if the only reason they're able to do so is by force.