Inari: interpretaitions,beliefs and desires

I've read alot of things here, and I've already said a few things before. Maybe I can clear something up with all of you about something I'm coming to understand about Kuro. Foremost, he IS an Inarist. At the same time, he IS some type of dark kitsune. This -IS- acceptable to Inari. I suppose that's why he is the way he is. _I- may not always agree to the same views he does, but I can say that he's within his own rights. I don't understand it entirely, but I won't try to. I'll just accept another of my kin, and smile the same knowing smirk. I can say, at least he's full of honesty and sincerity, even if he's a bit mean with it. That's one of the many different aspects of Makoto. That should be respected. He doesn't play nice, but dark kitsune never did. That's still Makoto, or 'True Sincerity'. It's an alignment to example that's commendable to follow, in basic principal. 'Be true to yourself.' If you can't, you won't be with others.

*turns and pokes Kuro.* I'm trying to make things look descent for you so others can understand you. Promoting tolerance is one of my strong points, but don't make things truly difficult for me. K? XP

Posted by Kuro:

"No. Just no. Cats were exalted, near-worshiped in Egypt. They were supposedly able to see the afterlife and communicate with beings therein. Kitsune are metaphysical beings. We are not exalted, near-worshiped in Japan. We're merely messengers, and some of us, the only beings on this planet that Inari-sama can order to carry out Her plans, will, and good deeds."

(Well, to a certain extent, Kitsune act much like what angels and saints are seen as in Christianity. We're not exalted, but we -are- revered. However, to be clear, this only applies to the good caste of kitsune, Ambassadors, Emissaries, Messengers, Guardians. We do alot. That alone should be respectable to be given a prayer in thanks. Though, by default, the prayer passes from us to Inari, as a kind of, thanks for the help' message. She likes those. So do I.)

"In order to truly follow and serve Inari-sama, you must be Myobu."

(Actually, that's wrong. Anyone can pray to Inari, and be an Inarist. To SERVE Inari, to do her work, you must be in a priest caste, or you must be a Myobu. That's the actual rule. And to the point, a later sentence does have it pegged down. You must study Shinto to learn more about Inari. However, you must also study all of Japanese aspects to truly understand why things are the way they are. This doesn't mean adopt them and make it your daily living, but you'll be surprised at what Christians and Shinto have in common.)

"...quite clearly as was told to me either you're Shinto or you're not. there's no in between at all.Ever. Meaning, there's no mixing and matching for Shinto, although it has managed to adopt some foreign structures over the last millennium. but even then those things are defined by the head shrines in Japan."

*sags ears to the sides of his head.* You're killing me, Kuro.

Posted by Kira:

"Research as much as you will. The second you get it is when you understand that there is no real truth."

Should we put it more accurately? "... there is no real PUBLIC truth accepted by all masses completely. Welcome to the supermarket of the world's religions. Even Christians argue over how 'God' should be seen, and that's a single religion too.)

Posted by Shiori:

"Well I met Starseeds sometime back (had trouble with Pleadians alot) And one thing I agreed with them with is the Source they call it that All the Goddesses were and are of the Source (God etc) So I believed that for a looong time and still do. But still with a Wiccan kemetic like belief that the Goddesses are One and that we all are connected in some way."

(While in a certain sense, this can be a basic fundamental truth, in that all deities work towards similar goals, I would advise you not to stray too far into 'Starseed' Fundamentalism. For pacifists, they would generally be right for human kind. We're not human. We're kitsune. This fundamental ide works well for your human nature, but I would warn you against mixing things for your kitsune. If you still wish to do that, understand the religions and all of their aspects first, so you understand what rules you're about to break.)

Posted by Kuro:

"Inari-sama isn't a loose collection of everything that makes the world shit rainbows. Inari-sama has a personality, entity-hood all Her own."

(This, in it's fundamentals, is true. Perhaps all deities did come from the same source, but like us humans, They evolve as well, no matter how eternal they are. They can never truly go back to being part of the same source. Ergo, the fundamentals of Her being are intrinsically Her own, complete with personality. Attributing this Starseed theoretical application to Shinto idealism in viewpoint that 'all deities are one', can make the fundamentals of the deity principal simply too mixed to be understood and appreciated for their individual facets.In another way of putting it.: You can look at a rock and say it's a rock, but to know the rock is a diamond, you have to appreciate the stone from it's many facets. Though the facet s may be from the same stone, each cut is now unique, and should be appreciated for it's new natures. Then you know it's worth.

On a second note, it's alright to study and worship two different deities. After all, Shinto -IS- poly-theism at it's own roots as well. Between Inari and Bast, it's an insightful study of personal character from a religious point of view. I'd certainly like to share more with in this. The trade off between Egyptian and Shinto religious ethics and intricacies should be intriguing. >^.^< )

Posted by Hanai:

"Shinto is about honoring and respecting beauty and significant/unusual happenings in nature.... Yes, every kami has a "personality". But a kami does not have power unless the people worship and revere them, and it is the tradition of the people that determine the nature of the kami that they worship."

(It's also the practice of revering the 'Kami', the 'spirit of the beauty', for which such an object, place, person or thing is held of particular community value.)

"If someone chooses to honor the kami within the framework of other belief systems, all the power to them, and may they be forever blessed by the kami that they worship."

(This can become a truth, but the first step to understanding how to truly do this is to learn the religion first. Granted, Shinto -IS- a 'Folk Religion at it's source, but it has evolved, as all things do. It -IS- adaptable, but -ONLY- when you know it's complete view. As is, I've even added in some of the fundamentals of Zen in with Shinto, but I still learned Shinto first. Shinto -IS- a form of Paganism, Japanese in origin, if this does help to start.

"Others may believe that there are an endless glut of different spirits who are all different individuals and have different influences and spheres of influence. If they are honoring them according to their belief, who gives a crap?"

(Ahem... *taps his foot and waits for the rant to end? Then points to each one of the individual gods.* "Don't forget one of the first things 'God said to Moses on Mt. Sainai. 'Thou shalt not worship any other god, for I am a jealous god.' This same application applies to many other deities in the pantheons. If you were a god, and wanted others to worship you in some certain way, and then got told, "Oh, well, you're all part of the same thing. I guess it really doesn't matter who my prayers go to, as long as they reach the big house in the sky. The mail will eventually get to you anyways..." How insulted would you feel? Not trying to make that sound mean, but a smack in the face is a smack in the face, whether it's by another deity, or another human.)

(Food for thought? People who ride fences blindfolded often end up Eunuchs.)

Posted by Shiori:

"well for the Bast connection and why I feel that Bast and Inari are connected. Not completely wholly connected but close. It is because Inari for example is to do with grains like rice etc. Cats in Egypt first were loved for pest control inside Graineries. Foxes had a similar purpose of pest control. Later cats were worshiped because of Bast. In shrines some Kitsune are worshiped or close to being worshiped in that case."

(I see the connection. Very astute. Is there more to this?)

Posted by Moon:

"How about asking the deities FIRST what they would like us to do in their honor, that is more respectful in my opinion."

(Now we're getting closer.)

1. Inari can be male. (True. O-Inari is the male aspect of Inari, and is the original aspect. However, we serve the female aspect. Why? Because Inari showed Herself to us as a female first, and always has. No matter if another human sees the male aspect of Inari interacting with a fox, we always see her as a female. To honor her, this is why the females in the Culture of Kitsune lead us.)

"...and Inari itself may actually be genderless." (To humans. Not to kitsune. Therein lies the difference. Has ANYONE ever seen a single text that speaks of a kitsune EVER reffering to Inari as a MALE?... And believe me, I can't see anyone having done as deep of research as I have, yet...)

Posted by Kuro:

"To serve is not to worship. Our service is merely as her eyes, ears, and hands in this world, is completely voluntary, and does not make us any better or worse than the other messenger spirits for the other kami. <.<; Just a few things to point out there."

(For another time, I'm seriously impressed, though curt, the point is exactly right. However, it -should- be elaborated on for clarity's sake. To the point, there's a part of us that will always be who we originally were. There's a part of us that we earn as we gain age in service. To me, Kuro is young in his service to Inari. I could easily try to insinuate that I outrank him in service, but I won't. All whom serve are fundamentally equal under Inari's eyes. She may grant a few more abilities to those whom have served her longer, but there is no lesser fundamentals to each servant in it's branch of work.

"... All worker bees in one hive serve the queen. None are different from the other. However, the Soldier Bees could be said to outrank the workers as the workers do follow the orders of the Soldier Bees through chemical scent emitted carrying scent tracers that seem like 'orders', but this does not mean that the worker bees or the soldier bees truly outrank each other. For each job, all are equals in they eyes of the Queen. It is from that perspective that we now take our next step into understanding the true inter-relationship to the Queen and her hive..."

~National Geographics on Honey-Bee Hives.~ )

Posted by Moon:

"Then where does the "must be Shinto" idea come into play? If it's a service or a job, then there shouldn't be any of this religious belief restriction."

(The must be Shinto point could be further doused into 'Must be educated in the workings of Shinto and Inarism. However, to do this, and truly understand how Shinto and Inarism relates to kitsune and the people, you must become Shinto. It's the same with Christianity. You can't go to church once and call yourself Christian. You still have to truly learn, and believe. The same aspect follows every tangent of any branch of systematic beliefs.)

"Sometimes a deity chooses the person, not the other way around. If a deity decides they want so and so to work for them, who's place is it for someone else to say "so and so cannot work for that deity" because of some self-labeling or belief choice? Apparently the deity doesn't really care that much, so you shouldn't either."

(Hmm... Other than Yokai, human priests and occasional monks, can you think of any others of any other religion that a person has claimed 'Inari' to have visited with?- such as Christians? I don't particularly hear any Muslim saying that they've had a Vision of Inari. Point is, it can be a 'religious belief', but to make it 'faith', you have to truly believe.)

"That being said, I do agree that research should be done to understand a deity. While I think it's still up to the deity itself, it wouldn't hurt to use tried and true traditional ways for contact/worship/etc, especially when starting out. So learning about Shinto's practices and myths (which is a toughie considering the Buddhism influences and mixtures from the past) help to be on the safe side..."

(...and the educated side. Know what rules are there. Know what rules need to be followed. Know what rules can be altered. To worship -IS- one thing. You -CAN- have a relationship with Inari outside of Shinto. To serve the worshiping is another thing. You can always serve the people who worship by being a priest or priestess. But to serve directly is altogether different. For that, you MUST learn those rules. To learn those rules, you need to do more than just have a relationship with her.

"You can work for the government pushing paper as a minimal secretary for the IRS. Or, you can truly learn to kick some ass by becoming a soldier, and the only way to do that is to sign up and go through boot camp and learn what it means to be a brother as a soldier. THEN you truly serve your country. ... At least then, when you're asked what you did during the big war, you don't have to look down in shame and say you were shoveling shit on a farm in Idaho."

Patten (I believe.) )

"...but actually becoming Shinto is not a requirement. Otherwise I would have had zero contact with Inari."

(Depends on the level of what you are doing, and are asked to do. You don't have to BE Shinto to have a relationship with Inari, just like you don't have to be Catholic to have a relationship with God. If you're satisfied with what you do in service to the Mother? Then be happy. Some, like me, choose to serve in different ways; to me, deeper. For that, more is expected of us.)

Posted by Kira:

"Kuro...
You wouldn't even believe a goddess if it appeared right before you, transformed you into a fox, and told you it was Inari, would you?"

(Let's not start insulting any deity by name by using the name to insult another, shall we? Some would consider that blasphemy.)

Posted by GoldKitsu:

"Who made you the authority Kuro?"

(He did, the moment he finished reading the book. Anyone who reads a book has the right to comment on the content in the pages with their opinion. He put the time into reading it. Leave him to his oppinions. That's all.)

Posted by Moon:

"The last book I want to get is "The Fox's Craft" but I'm going to need a lot more money before that gets in my hands. 90$ is a bit too much for a book."

(You can also try going to a large inner city library. If they don't have it, you can request it, bug the hell out of them to get it (Maybe donate part of the money with a specific request for the book?), and they will. It's VERY worth the read. I promise.)

"Not really. Only some are like that, about the same amount and degree as in Japan. It's mostly concentrated in Northern China, which is where the true Japanese (not the Ainu or other ethnicities) came from when crossing to the islands. So naturally the stories are similar."

(*growls.* "I'd be warry of saying 'true' about anything, especially about ethnicity. Foremost, the Ainu came from the Ice Age Travelers, and ARE the original 'Japanese' Island Dwellers. The MODERN Japanese ancestors were people who were tired of the Chinese /Mongolian Wars on both the Mongolian and Chinese sides, and pretty much left together. Stole away on ships, eventually finding Japan's isles, they stayed there peacefully and quietly, living life and mingling with the Ainu. ...until China showed back up during conquest in the 3000 BC time period, and influenced some of the Jomon time period, though even THAT is pure speculation by modern archaeologists, but that speculation is based on hard facts.")

Posted by Shiori:

"Who knows we don't know what will happen since there is alot that also accept us like the Otherkin communities etc. Yes there will be fear but here in the US even if a human saw the real us we are citizens so there are still "rights"."

(I'd suggest reading the Constitution again. The foremost thought is 'Basic -human- Rights'. If they saw the real us?... I wouldn't want to be within Pluto's reach of human kind.)

Posted by Moon:

"At the most, we'd be marvels of science..."

(Of course. After we were studied, analyzed, dissected, and put into so many tiny pickle jars with little specimen labels. Isn't that what most modern science does with new species they find in the Amazon? Let alone around the rest of the world.)

In the end, following Inari is largely by choice. Worshiping and/or revering her are different matters alone and together, separate from all else. Even doing her will is something different.

You may not have to be Shinto to have a relationship with Her. However, to truly serve Her, you have to know Her Rules.

And yes, she carries a specialized Scythe which harvests crops, or kills crops for those 'deemed unworthy of growth' and a specialized 'Flat, Dual-sided Machete, used to kill those whom hunt her Children's tails'.

And the Kumiho?... Were part of the Sistern that left China and headed East after Mei Ling was killed. Whole sale slaughter. In Korea, they didn't need power. They -were- power. Power and terror. The stories from Korea of the legendary Kumiho... are truly much like what things Mei Ling, Pau Su, and Tamamo no Mae were -truly- like. Only a few touches more refined; not so... messy... as the Kumiho Sistern.