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[Rei Tsukikage]

just out of curiosity and flat out interest, i've been wondering why every one here reffers to Inari-Sama as "she". maybe i'm poking a lil deep but from my own experiences at an Inari Shinto temple and from various reading of academia have caused a different view on the subject. I've also come across several other interesting instances. :determined: i know a great deal of kitsune come to be from the main lines IE: have some sort of Japanese ancestry behind them and are on birth inducted into the various divisions of the heavens, like i was and even farther back. the one i share my physical body with was.

but now a days the birth rate is becoming more diverse, which is interesting to me because in some parts of the world there is 0% knowledge of the backgrounds that appear with most kitsune and other kin
and some times the only exposure all though rare is through several different game plat forms  

any ways i'm interested in hearing how others have come to their current state of beliefs. because it's a miracle in the way that the kami have devised to pull their children back to them. and for those curious as to my own nature. Yes i am Shinto

i forgot to add this as the desire end, and at this point i'm not totally expecting to get straight forward answers. more or less this is more of a survey of sorts. in knowing that some of the kit's being born into this world are not of direct lineage i wonder if maybe some where , individuals began to shape the their initial knowledge of  Inari-sama away from what what she is and more into what they want to see of her in their own minds. personally i don't mind this happening as along as they don't flay her image into some kinda manga effigy aside from that though. i guess i just take at face value since i have some what of a debt to pay off for being a bad kit.

[Seeker]

You're right, Inari-sama is depicted as male more often than female(which is very unusual, archetypewise, since Inari is largely an agricultural deity, a role typically held by goddesses in mythology), only very rarely as a fox, sometimes as an old man riding a fox, sometimes as a white snake(snakes being a recognizable symbol to rice farmers, one of Inari's patronages.)

Your second point is one of the reasons I believe in otherkin: many people, from diverse backgrounds, come to the same states of mind and beliefs independently. Including myself- While I'm still trying to find out exactly why, I had come to feel a similar way about a great many things before even knowing about otherkin, and on having a few conversations and reading their insights and records of their own journeys I came across innumerable similarities. And kitsune in particular! Kitsune and portrayals of their archetype are quite scarce in video games and books, and even anime, compared to other mythological creatures, so it's unlikely that many will be influenced by those images early on. It's quite amusing there are so many that place themselves as fox spirits.

Honestly, I'm not sure exactly how my mindset has evolved over the years or why. I do try and go back to re-examine things on occasion, but usually I just try to not get myself screwed up in the first place.

[Aurora]

isn't inari also a goddess of wealth though? that would sort of fit in with her being male i think. also i've heard of her/him looking like a snake at times, that's realy interesting because i like snakes. are there any other forms besides the old man riding a fox and the snake that she takes?

i haven't heard of that before, a lot of kitsunes being japanese i mean.  

how i came to my beliefs is kind of a long story, but basicaly my parents were christian and i didn't want anything to do with it because i hated the way the christian god pretended to love you just so he could control you.  so i went looking for something else that would fit in with me and i found a page on inari, and then i met a friend who became really close to me, another kitsune.  she's realy nice, and she helped me to learn a lot.  i wish she liked this site actually because you guys all seem nice, too.  but yeah basically that's it.

[Rei Tsukikage]

I'm going to try to reply to both cause i don't have classes atm,

first i would like to say this

Seeker, you have through your posts shown a great deal of reflectiveness within this and other subjects, I haven't been able to read very far back yet but i wonder, are you in some sort of Japan Studies program?

Now then back to replies,

Seeker, I find it interesting within Shinto that Inari-Sama carries a duality of being both male and female in connotation, albeit a common trend in most nature based religions to mesh feminine deities to agriculture.

 I believe the male incarnation is representative of what i believe to be Buddhist cross over  and quite more possibly when Inari-Sama is being referred to as Kami of rice they become, male but when and I'm not to sure how well this is documented but I believe that the female incarnate is thought to be Kami of Feasts and prosperity.. and perhaps luck if memory serves correct which in supposition would essentially be more immediately feminine then say, farming(of course this is based of my Reckoning of older idiosyncrasies ). Interestingly though most individuals who identify through Inari-Sama only acknowledge the Female form, perhaps maybe because females are more attractive and forgiving/accepting? who knows.

 As for the accompanying animals they associate with I have read so many articles speculating the reasoning behind it can mean many things some to lengthy to even list. however I did read one which made some sense. It mostly speculated that foxes became messengers of Inari based on the seasonal appearances of said lovable critters heralding the arrival of the rainy season.

Foxie First off welcome, and from what info you've given, I would say you and I have some thing in common, and to say the least you're not doing any thing wrong by being attracted to it,

As I wrote earlier about the various associations of Inari-Sama I just happen to Point out that the female incarnation tends to be more roughly associated with the theme of Prosperity. In which case, it seems as if you're following your nature true to heart which in IMHO is a top priority of being a kitsune, how ever some would call us greedy for it, I wouldn't  let them get to you.

As far as the male/female discussion goes I have a belief that in the androgyny of Inari lies the Reason as to why foxes were chosen as the obvious means of conveying messages , normally aside from the iconic romanticizing some people apply to Kitsune, truth be told we have never once been accused of being to compassionate and forgiving, in fact quite to contrary of some beliefs Kitsune tend to have fun in their earlier life learning about their "gifts" by antagonizing unsuspecting people. and it's gotten to the point where some times we forget what we were doing in the first place.

It's one of my beliefs that our function in the order of the universe is to "level the playing field" and get peoples attention, as far a I can recall Kitsune have always been tied to major changes in society, in the way people think and more importantly is how those who rule(that one has changed meaning over the years) are at times removed and or come to a realization that they should perhaps do things differently.

Finally  as far as the whole most kitsune are Japanese statement goes, here is how I reckon the situation: like Vulples Vulples Japanica I.E, the japanese fox, the Kitsune (spirit foxes) were at one time and for a very long time (+/- 1500 years) solely native to Japan, and like all things how the hell is some thing isolated in one area going to around the world to another?. more plainly, I have an interest in Native American fox totems but I am in no such way remotely associated with them. How ever that doesn't take into account now of cultural sprawl. since there are Japanese people around the world and some of them have even gone as far as being half Japanese. but back on topic. some would say they are kitsune. that I do not detest in the least, others go a step further and claim things that for some who follow some what more rigorously have never heard of.

also just wanted to note that some times boards aren't  for every one but that's another discussion in and of it self.

[matoa]

My story is similar to Aurora's, I grew up in a christian household, and was "forced" to go to church. (They would really force me to go even if I did not want to)

Now that I am an adult (or at least older) I am free to choose my own path. I have not chosen a religion to follow simply because I have not found one that suits me. I have found Buddhism to be a little too passive for my needs, and most Catholic and Jewish "traditions" are simply absurd. I can understand the purpose of Shinto, but I can not follow any entity until I can fully understand their purpose.

Describes how I believe the universe runs:
http://http://forums.kitsuhana.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=279

What do I believe in right now? Not much. I have had empathic connections with a series of animals over the years. At times I have seen them in my dreams, and at other times I feel them speaking to me as guides. And on a very few rare and beautiful occasions I have met them in real life.

Order of appearance in real life and in my dreams:
*Dolphins-whales
*Orca (I know it is considered a dolphin, however it is important enough to note separately)
Wolf
Kangaroo
Dragon
Skunk
*Fox
* = Interacted with in the wild.

Most recently (2006-present) I have seen foxes twice in the wild, and I now have had several dreams of myself walking, around a shrine on a green hill that I am guessing is somewhere in Japan, and it is always night there. When I see myself, I am a very small one tailed green tinted fox. When I see other foxes there they are very large compared to me.

Seeing those foxes, and the dreams eventually let me here, I have had several dreams since, and they seem to be progressing. I will see what they have for me in the future.

I don't have any specific connection to Kitsuné other than that. So it may just be a coincidence that I am here at all, however considering how coincidences have so far worked in my life I may have a purpose here to fulfill. And perhaps I can help others find their way while I am at it.

As far as what others believe, I will support and believe anyone 100% in their beliefs until I have a very good reason not to. I have chosen to trust before condemning. This might make me an easy target to fool, but I feel it has the best chance of finding any truth. If I rejected everything outlandish that came my way I would have a very boring life indeed.

I have felt that up until a few years ago I was bringing more problems into the world than I was solving. I am finally to the point that I can start helping.

 

[Rei Tsukikage]

I Read over your view in Kira's post and to tell the truth I see what you're getting at,  and to be plainly honest I think that you view is wonderfully simple but  at the same time requires that we be unselfish in thinking that we should be paid full attention to by our creators. I believe that if more people shared a similar view there would be a great deal less controversy over who is "God's favorite" and as a result we would probably be able to move forward in the grand scheme of things.

A note on animal associations

I have this belief that all though we prefer one animal over another in the end we have no choice as to which animal we get as a guide, and in fact our guide is chosen for us in accordance to what we need and how we function independently as opposed to what we want and desire as a whole because I would find it hard to believe that a wolf for instance would be able to fulfill a task that could be done in half the time and twice the speed as an otter, Meaning that nature and the spiritual realm in general has way's of maneuvering things to be able to take the path of least resistance.

as far as interaction goes I have little knowledge although oddly I have come face to face with a fox in nature, it was nothing like the kitsune I'm descended from how ever we did acknowledge each other and then continue on our separate paths. BUT NOTE:  the fox was just that a normal fox that I met in the woods while I was in Georgia.

also I just wanted to say, this is purely out of experience. when you start offering assistance pace your self and don't do more then you can handle no matter what. some times people tend to ask for help before they've even begun to try to attempt to solve the problem for them selves i guess what I'm trying to say is. use discretion.

[matoa]

As far as animal associations, the animals I have made contact with in real life did not seem to be "magical" or even "spiritual" they just seemed intelligent. It was as if I looking into the eyes of something as intelligent or even possibly more intelligent than a human. They did not at the time seem to be "animals" at all.

Once I saw the killer whales at Sea World, I did not get the same awe inspiring feeling that I felt from the wild ones. They were just animals in a cage. I wonder what was missing? Or could it have been my perspective? Would I lose some vital part of myself in a similar way, were I to be captured, separated from my family, and placed on display in some kind of circus as they were?

Something to think about.

As far as overcommiting myself, In the past I have tried to help so many people at one time, that I ended up getting burned out. Something I read told me that the best approach to any interpersonal exchange was for both parties to meet halfway. If one party does all of the work, then the other party would have no reason to learn. I now use some discretion, and it saves both parties trouble.

Already learned the hard way, but I thank you for the warning.

 

[Kuro]

I highly dislike how analytical you're being of Her....

Bah.  Can't explain.  Not opening another can of worms again.

[Aurora]

kuro, maybe you should relax. none of the things in this topic are bad. theres nothing wrong with being analytical about a god or goddess you believe in. christians do it about their god too.

edit: and i'm like this topic, it's interesting to read.

[Seeker]

Once I saw the killer whales at Sea World, I did not get the same awe inspiring feeling that I felt from the wild ones. They were just animals in a cage. I wonder what was missing? Or could it have been my perspective? Would I lose some vital part of myself in a similar way, were I to be captured, separated from my family, and placed on display in some kind of circus as they were?

Something to think about.

hmm... perhaps this is worthy of a new thread?

[Rei Tsukikage]

kuro I'm glad you dislike how analytical I'm being, but I fear you're not appreciating the fact that I'm not being analytical of her but the various people who revere/worship her and on top of that I myself am included in the analysis , if you want mho then ask, I take no offense to it and as always I'm glad to explain and provide assistance  

[Kuro]

If I explained how, I'd start another flame war of "LIES"  "Not lies" "NO U RNT" "YA HE US"  "U R LIENG" "WE R NUT" bullshit.  And as things are, I have many more things to devote my energy to, such as learning the necessary skillls to live on my own and rebuild and resanctify a new area in which I must live.  WThis means more prayers, more energywork, more wards, hopefully finally learning how to make seals, and more energy stored into lennie so I can do all of that.  I'm not getting into any of it, family, tails, energywork techniques, etc.

IMHO, you're all losing focus on who Inari-sama is to you.  That's what you need to take hold of, and speak with Her about.

[Aurora]

kuro, it looks like you have a high respect for inari-sama. i know you mean good, but the way you act, you are either hopelessly lost in your path or are trying to hard and making up for something else. i don't mean to offend you by saying this, but look at how you are in just that last post. there is nothing wrong with a discussion like this topic.

[Seeker]

I'm not religious, but I see some wisdom in what Kuro is saying- that worship should be a personal relationship with your given deity, and asking how someone else relates to the same deity can only help so much. Focusing on defining rather than knowing is the wrong way to go about it.

Also, I don't think we need to worry about flamewars at the moment. We shouldn't let what happened a bit ago prevent us from being able to communicate.

[Shiori]

I beleive Inari is just one aspect of the whole Goddess maybe even the God. I serve the Goddess wholly but under her name Bast. I always served the Goddess I am a Pagan Kitsune not really Wiccan but just pagan as a whole. lol Hard to explain. I am still under Her in her Inari aspect I just feel much more connected to Bast. So ya I beleive Inari is just one aspect out of Many names. Foxes are honored in Asia like cats were in Egypt.

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